Comments on: Getting Value-Added Right http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2008/11/17/getting-value-added-right/ Closing the Achievement Gap: Teaching Content Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:59:33 -0600 hourly 1 By: Nancy Flanagan http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2008/11/17/getting-value-added-right/comment-page-1/#comment-4879 Nancy Flanagan Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:25:51 +0000 http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=1460#comment-4879 The Mathews column evidently rang a lot of chimes yesterday. It was my blog topic, too, in a post called "The Audacity of Pumpkin Pie:" http://tinyurl.com/5qs9kj Rachel's right--the concept of "adding value" is attractive--but using VAM to identify effective teaching (or, God help us, fire the lowest quintile) is, as Dan points out, the elevation of cool statistics over substance. I have heard any number of data experts, including Dan Koretz and Dan Goldhaber (what is it about the Dans?) debunk the idea that VAM is the way to go in identifying effective teaching. As a former waitress-your-way-through-college type, I really appreciated your analogy. But ask any caring teacher to tell you a personal story about a smart kid who had a bad year when his parents divorced, and you won't need an analogy. We do need to delineate, identify and recognize efficacious teaching. But we need a full toolbox to do it. The Mathews column evidently rang a lot of chimes yesterday. It was my blog topic, too, in a post called “The Audacity of Pumpkin Pie:”

http://tinyurl.com/5qs9kj

Rachel’s right–the concept of “adding value” is attractive–but using VAM to identify effective teaching (or, God help us, fire the lowest quintile) is, as Dan points out, the elevation of cool statistics over substance. I have heard any number of data experts, including Dan Koretz and Dan Goldhaber (what is it about the Dans?) debunk the idea that VAM is the way to go in identifying effective teaching.

As a former waitress-your-way-through-college type, I really appreciated your analogy. But ask any caring teacher to tell you a personal story about a smart kid who had a bad year when his parents divorced, and you won’t need an analogy. We do need to delineate, identify and recognize efficacious teaching. But we need a full toolbox to do it.

]]> By: Rachel http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2008/11/17/getting-value-added-right/comment-page-1/#comment-4876 Rachel Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:58:46 +0000 http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=1460#comment-4876 "Value added" is a concept that, like "continuous improvement" has considerable appeal. But many of the most vocal supporters of accountability seem to have difficultly realizing that concepts don't translate easily into employee evaluation systems. Very few private businesses evaluate their employees in ways that are as simplistic as many of the proposals for evaluating and compensating teachers. “Value added” is a concept that, like “continuous improvement” has considerable appeal. But many of the most vocal supporters of accountability seem to have difficultly realizing that concepts don’t translate easily into employee evaluation systems. Very few private businesses evaluate their employees in ways that are as simplistic as many of the proposals for evaluating and compensating teachers.

]]> By: Robert Pondiscio http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2008/11/17/getting-value-added-right/comment-page-1/#comment-4875 Robert Pondiscio Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:37:31 +0000 http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=1460#comment-4875 Why not? Because I see a lot of promise in the idea in evaluating schools as a whole (at least when tracking students in the same school over time). Where it leaves the rails for me is in using it to evaluate individual teachers. Readers note: Dr. Willingham has a terrific post on value-added over at Britannica Blog, which includes the statistical issues he alludes to. Here's a link: http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2008/11/how-not-to-evaluate-teachers/ Why not? Because I see a lot of promise in the idea in evaluating schools as a whole (at least when tracking students in the same school over time). Where it leaves the rails for me is in using it to evaluate individual teachers.

Readers note: Dr. Willingham has a terrific post on value-added over at Britannica Blog, which includes the statistical issues he alludes to. Here’s a link:
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2008/11/how-not-to-evaluate-teachers/

]]> By: Dan Willingham http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2008/11/17/getting-value-added-right/comment-page-1/#comment-4874 Dan Willingham Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:31:37 +0000 http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=1460#comment-4874 Why is it not an attack on value-added more generally? I think it should be. You didn't mention the statistical problems with value-added measures, which are formidable. As they stand, the measures are NOT reliable. The idea of value-added assessments has enough promise that it seems like the measurement folks should keep on working on it, but it is clearly not ready for implementation. Why is it not an attack on value-added more generally? I think it should be.
You didn’t mention the statistical problems with value-added measures, which are formidable. As they stand, the measures are NOT reliable.
The idea of value-added assessments has enough promise that it seems like the measurement folks should keep on working on it, but it is clearly not ready for implementation.

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