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	<title>Comments on: Freire Is Foul and Foul is Freire</title>
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	<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/</link>
	<description>Closing the Achievement Gap: Teaching Content</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:59:33 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6716</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6716</guid>
		<description>Donna: &lt;i&gt;Anyone who has never been oppressed would never be able to comprehend Freire. Anyone who doesn’t understand economic oppressions would never be able to understand Freire.&lt;/i&gt;

So why should we care about him then? Why not read someone who can express themselves more clearly? A good writer is one who can explain things to other people, who can open up new worlds for other people. There are ample good writers on the planet, why waste our time on an incompetent one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna: <i>Anyone who has never been oppressed would never be able to comprehend Freire. Anyone who doesn’t understand economic oppressions would never be able to understand Freire.</i></p>
<p>So why should we care about him then? Why not read someone who can express themselves more clearly? A good writer is one who can explain things to other people, who can open up new worlds for other people. There are ample good writers on the planet, why waste our time on an incompetent one?</p>
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		<title>By: Susan T.</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6707</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 17:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6707</guid>
		<description>Ben, Yes, that is what my question (badly posed!) meant. Thanks! I take it that you would support a common core curriculum. So would I; my first 5 years of schooling were in New Orleans, and we constantly had new kids arriving who had no idea what we had been doing.

Now I live in Northern Virginia, supposed to have some of the best schools possible. I&#039;ve taught here, and my daughter graduated here. She says that every time they studied history, no matter what grade, they always began more or less in prehistory, and never got much beyond the Middle Ages.

At this point I&#039;m not sure how this got into a discussion about Freire,but I&#039;m going to try to get a bit more familiar with his work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, Yes, that is what my question (badly posed!) meant. Thanks! I take it that you would support a common core curriculum. So would I; my first 5 years of schooling were in New Orleans, and we constantly had new kids arriving who had no idea what we had been doing.</p>
<p>Now I live in Northern Virginia, supposed to have some of the best schools possible. I&#8217;ve taught here, and my daughter graduated here. She says that every time they studied history, no matter what grade, they always began more or less in prehistory, and never got much beyond the Middle Ages.</p>
<p>At this point I&#8217;m not sure how this got into a discussion about Freire,but I&#8217;m going to try to get a bit more familiar with his work.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Eccleston</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6706</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Eccleston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 15:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6706</guid>
		<description>No, Donna, anyone who has never read history would never be able to understand Friere. If history teaches anything it is that whenever a particular group is granted exclusive rights to the truth, oppression doth follow.

Look, the syllibi of ed. school intro courses are just plain... Well, let&#039;s say they are tired. Awefully, awefully tired. So, it might be fun here, with so many participants, suggest some new titles. How about adding The Autobiograpy of Malcom X, The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas, and, at least, the chaper, &quot;Reading&quot; from Walden? There&#039;s a trio of minds bent on the nature of education!

Tom, What cheer, netop? Your comments are so cryptic. Debbie Gist a Red? Surely you jest. But what a story her tenure will be! Former D.C. overseer of Michelle Rhee, will she be chewed up and spat out by the establishment here? Is that faint scraping in the Rhode Island night our first cricket heralding of coming summer, or is it the sharpening of knives? If, Tom, you are not pledged to silence, pray tell. Where and when will the cloaks be dropped?

As for the GLE&#039;s, they&#039;ve been long since digested. A little chewy at first, but they settled well enough. My students are doing just fine with them, too. What I hope doen&#039;t happen before I retire is another change in the menu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Donna, anyone who has never read history would never be able to understand Friere. If history teaches anything it is that whenever a particular group is granted exclusive rights to the truth, oppression doth follow.</p>
<p>Look, the syllibi of ed. school intro courses are just plain&#8230; Well, let&#8217;s say they are tired. Awefully, awefully tired. So, it might be fun here, with so many participants, suggest some new titles. How about adding The Autobiograpy of Malcom X, The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas, and, at least, the chaper, &#8220;Reading&#8221; from Walden? There&#8217;s a trio of minds bent on the nature of education!</p>
<p>Tom, What cheer, netop? Your comments are so cryptic. Debbie Gist a Red? Surely you jest. But what a story her tenure will be! Former D.C. overseer of Michelle Rhee, will she be chewed up and spat out by the establishment here? Is that faint scraping in the Rhode Island night our first cricket heralding of coming summer, or is it the sharpening of knives? If, Tom, you are not pledged to silence, pray tell. Where and when will the cloaks be dropped?</p>
<p>As for the GLE&#8217;s, they&#8217;ve been long since digested. A little chewy at first, but they settled well enough. My students are doing just fine with them, too. What I hope doen&#8217;t happen before I retire is another change in the menu.</p>
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		<title>By: John W. Addie</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6705</link>
		<dc:creator>John W. Addie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 10:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6705</guid>
		<description>I too, way over here in Australia, read Freire, and Illich and Postman and others because they emphasised that learning was the exercise of freedom.  What worries me about a lot of the discussion so far is that it seems to reinforce the opposite what I take Hirsch to be emphasising: that learners are responsible for the acquisition of skills and teachers can only help them to develop the knowledge which lies at the basis of skills such as literacy.  Teachers in my view, are like coaches, helping people to learn but not producing learning. Intellectual and other skills are the outcome of learning, training and practice which are the responsibilities of learners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too, way over here in Australia, read Freire, and Illich and Postman and others because they emphasised that learning was the exercise of freedom.  What worries me about a lot of the discussion so far is that it seems to reinforce the opposite what I take Hirsch to be emphasising: that learners are responsible for the acquisition of skills and teachers can only help them to develop the knowledge which lies at the basis of skills such as literacy.  Teachers in my view, are like coaches, helping people to learn but not producing learning. Intellectual and other skills are the outcome of learning, training and practice which are the responsibilities of learners.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6704</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 02:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6704</guid>
		<description>Yes Bill, just wait &#039;til that radical leftist &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.projo.com/education/content/gist_at_statehouse_04-03-09_7FDTV1Q_v32.3786c7b.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deb Gist&lt;/a&gt; shoves those Trotskyite &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ride.ri.gov/assessment/NECAP.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GLE&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s down your throat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Bill, just wait &#8217;til that radical leftist <a href="http://www.projo.com/education/content/gist_at_statehouse_04-03-09_7FDTV1Q_v32.3786c7b.html" rel="nofollow">Deb Gist</a> shoves those Trotskyite <a href="http://www.ride.ri.gov/assessment/NECAP.aspx" rel="nofollow">GLE</a>&#8217;s down your throat.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben F</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6703</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 00:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6703</guid>
		<description>Donna,

Do you know if Cuban schools use traditional direct-instruction with a prescribed curriculum or something more student-centered and &quot;progressive&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna,</p>
<p>Do you know if Cuban schools use traditional direct-instruction with a prescribed curriculum or something more student-centered and &#8220;progressive&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: florencia</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6700</link>
		<dc:creator>florencia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 20:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6700</guid>
		<description>I am a Principal in a bilingual school in Mexico City.  Our system is constructivism which pretty much lets the students thing for themselves, investigate and the teacher is &quot;in a way&quot; a moderator.  Children are more engaged in all the subjects, their thinking skills are great in both languages and precisely whay Freire meant.  There is so banking educatio going on here.  Students work in groups, they investigate and give an opinion and a response.  i would invite all of you to come and visit our school (well after the influenza problem of course).  We are not presured with test results, which make teachers very stressed with their &quot;bonuses&quot; for performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a Principal in a bilingual school in Mexico City.  Our system is constructivism which pretty much lets the students thing for themselves, investigate and the teacher is &#8220;in a way&#8221; a moderator.  Children are more engaged in all the subjects, their thinking skills are great in both languages and precisely whay Freire meant.  There is so banking educatio going on here.  Students work in groups, they investigate and give an opinion and a response.  i would invite all of you to come and visit our school (well after the influenza problem of course).  We are not presured with test results, which make teachers very stressed with their &#8220;bonuses&#8221; for performance.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6698</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 15:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6698</guid>
		<description>Anyone who has never been oppressed would never be able to comprehend Freire. Anyone who doesn&#039;t understand economic oppressions would never be able to understand Freire. In a country as rich as ours, there are people who work 8 to 16 hours a day and they still cannot provide their families with basic needs. This is oppressions. Other countries/cultures are so much more conscious and aware of social inadequacies than people in the US. Teachers in NYC schools do not band together (out of justified fear of reprisal) and powerfully voice what is wrong with the system; hence failing schools continue to fail as those in power manipulate data to look good. One reason the US refuses to lift restrictions on Cuba is to keep the government in economic chains. Our government cannot have a socialistic country so close to its borders that has the highest rate of literacy in the world and a free health care system that works. Our government is giving billions of dollars to failed companies and banks and we have no say in the matter. No one protests. Someone did the math. If our government took the bailout money that it has handed out (without any restrictions or conditions) to banks and corporations, and divided the amount among every US citizen 18 years and older, then each person in our country would receive approximately $840,000. Now that would be an economic stimulus package.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who has never been oppressed would never be able to comprehend Freire. Anyone who doesn&#8217;t understand economic oppressions would never be able to understand Freire. In a country as rich as ours, there are people who work 8 to 16 hours a day and they still cannot provide their families with basic needs. This is oppressions. Other countries/cultures are so much more conscious and aware of social inadequacies than people in the US. Teachers in NYC schools do not band together (out of justified fear of reprisal) and powerfully voice what is wrong with the system; hence failing schools continue to fail as those in power manipulate data to look good. One reason the US refuses to lift restrictions on Cuba is to keep the government in economic chains. Our government cannot have a socialistic country so close to its borders that has the highest rate of literacy in the world and a free health care system that works. Our government is giving billions of dollars to failed companies and banks and we have no say in the matter. No one protests. Someone did the math. If our government took the bailout money that it has handed out (without any restrictions or conditions) to banks and corporations, and divided the amount among every US citizen 18 years and older, then each person in our country would receive approximately $840,000. Now that would be an economic stimulus package.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben F</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 15:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6697</guid>
		<description>Susan,

I&#039;m not sure what you mean asking if I see my curriculum as &quot;definitive&quot;.  I see it as a primer coat  --setting up the schemata of various historical episodes which students can hang additional details on (or modify) as their education progresses.  Do I tell them to think critically about what I&#039;m telling them, because teachers lie and you should be suspicious of all authority, and there exist radically different perspectives on everything I&#039;m telling you, and I&#039;m only telling you a bare-bones version of events?  No. It&#039;s hard enough for most of them to simply &quot;get&quot; the narrative I give.  Is it a perfect one?  By no means.  But if the alternative is no history in their heads, I don&#039;t feel so bad about my imperfect version.  The scary reality is that for most of my kids, especially the non-college bound, this is the ONLY course in medieval and early modern world history they will EVER get.  It&#039;s dismaying to me that, as flawed as I feel my  teaching to be, I&#039;m pretty sure that most 7th graders in California get a whole lot less history knowledge than what I provide my kids.  For instance, from what I&#039;ve heard, it&#039;s common to lop off the Reformation, Age of Exploration, Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment.  Most middle school principals lump history with language arts and literature, hoping that the teacher will divert some energy from history to STAR language arts/reading test prep.  And now Jack O&#039;Connell, our state superintendent, wants to water down our wonderful history standards with &quot;21st Century Skills&quot;  --guaranteeing that even less actual history gets learned.  Add to this the fact that our state&#039;s big professional organization for social studies teachers seems steeped in progressive ed orthodoxy, and the prospects for good history teaching in this state seem bleak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you mean asking if I see my curriculum as &#8220;definitive&#8221;.  I see it as a primer coat  &#8211;setting up the schemata of various historical episodes which students can hang additional details on (or modify) as their education progresses.  Do I tell them to think critically about what I&#8217;m telling them, because teachers lie and you should be suspicious of all authority, and there exist radically different perspectives on everything I&#8217;m telling you, and I&#8217;m only telling you a bare-bones version of events?  No. It&#8217;s hard enough for most of them to simply &#8220;get&#8221; the narrative I give.  Is it a perfect one?  By no means.  But if the alternative is no history in their heads, I don&#8217;t feel so bad about my imperfect version.  The scary reality is that for most of my kids, especially the non-college bound, this is the ONLY course in medieval and early modern world history they will EVER get.  It&#8217;s dismaying to me that, as flawed as I feel my  teaching to be, I&#8217;m pretty sure that most 7th graders in California get a whole lot less history knowledge than what I provide my kids.  For instance, from what I&#8217;ve heard, it&#8217;s common to lop off the Reformation, Age of Exploration, Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment.  Most middle school principals lump history with language arts and literature, hoping that the teacher will divert some energy from history to STAR language arts/reading test prep.  And now Jack O&#8217;Connell, our state superintendent, wants to water down our wonderful history standards with &#8220;21st Century Skills&#8221;  &#8211;guaranteeing that even less actual history gets learned.  Add to this the fact that our state&#8217;s big professional organization for social studies teachers seems steeped in progressive ed orthodoxy, and the prospects for good history teaching in this state seem bleak.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan T.</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/04/27/freire-is-foul-and-foul-is-freire/comment-page-1/#comment-6693</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 12:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coreknowledge.org/blog/?p=2538#comment-6693</guid>
		<description>Ben, Thanks for answering my question! I appreciate getting this view into the classroom. (I wonder if the child who murmured that he hated the class was reacting to the need to take responsibility for his work. I also wondered if my resentful high school students were reacting because I placed expectations.)

Do you see your curriculum as definitive so that your students will have only the knowledge that is treated in your class?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, Thanks for answering my question! I appreciate getting this view into the classroom. (I wonder if the child who murmured that he hated the class was reacting to the need to take responsibility for his work. I also wondered if my resentful high school students were reacting because I placed expectations.)</p>
<p>Do you see your curriculum as definitive so that your students will have only the knowledge that is treated in your class?</p>
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