Comments on: The “Curse of Knowledge” http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/ Closing the Achievement Gap: Teaching Content Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:32:26 -0500 hourly 1 By: Martin http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7750 Martin Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:22:37 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7750 Given that a child can decode text reasonably fluently it has always seemed to me that reading comprehension problems are really oral comprehension problems. In other words if someone read the problematic passage to the child they would be no better off. A fluent adult reader with presumably all the right reading strategies available to them would not be able to adequately comprehend a highly technical text on an unfamiliar topic even though they sound like they are 'tapping out the right tune'. Even worse time spent on learning comprehension strategies means less time actually reading. Given that a child can decode text reasonably fluently it has always seemed to me that reading comprehension problems are really oral comprehension problems. In other words if someone read the problematic passage to the child they would be no better off. A fluent adult reader with presumably all the right reading strategies available to them would not be able to adequately comprehend a highly technical text on an unfamiliar topic even though they sound like they are ‘tapping out the right tune’.
Even worse time spent on learning comprehension strategies means less time actually reading.

]]> By: shill http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7740 shill Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:45:40 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7740 Good article. My school district has bought into a program called "C-Scope," and many of the teachers are questioning some of the claims being made by the company as to its effectiveness. Does anybody out there know anything about this curriculum? Good article. My school district has bought into a program called “C-Scope,” and many of the teachers are questioning some of the claims being made by the company as to its effectiveness. Does anybody out there know anything about this curriculum?

]]> By: M Davis http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7474 M Davis Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:58:30 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7474 Very powerful analogy. I hesitate to say that it is absolutely impossible to think back to the earlier state, when one was without the knowledge. But it certainly very, very difficult. This is one of the most significant challenges facing editors who are working on children's material. Very powerful analogy. I hesitate to say that it is absolutely impossible to think back to the earlier state, when one was without the knowledge. But it certainly very, very difficult. This is one of the most significant challenges facing editors who are working on children’s material.

]]> By: Nancy Flanagan http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7406 Nancy Flanagan Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:54:29 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7406 I'm not familiar with Newton's research--but something very similar to what she did happens all the time in musical ear-training: familiar rhythmic patterns are played, and listeners transpose the patterns into symbolic notation. Even without pitch, seeing the patterns often causes the transcriber to be able to attach that visual to a familiar song. I have done this with kids as young as 3rd grade, with a fair degree of success. They get better at it with practice, in fact. Seeing the notation gives them a reference point for running the rhythm through their mental library and checking for matches. If I gave them a pool of songs to choose from (even a large pool), they could pick the correct song with impressive accuracy, simply by hearing the rhythm. In other words, if Newton had used a multiple choice format, schoolkids could not only identify the song, but transcribe it, if the notation were simple enough. A song like "Twinkle, Twinkle" would be drop-dead easy for most 10-year olds. This does not negate your point: all learning is easier if the learner has background knowledge. The learner constructs new knowledge around and in relationship to old, practiced knowledge. And sometimes, old knowledge is definitely a curse. At this very moment, millions of people are trying to reconcile what they "know" about the American health care system by grafting it on to other systems. You might also be surprised at how few songs are universal in the American consciousness. Lots of research on the shrinking % of Americans who know either the words or the tune to the national anthem. I’m not familiar with Newton’s research–but something very similar to what she did happens all the time in musical ear-training: familiar rhythmic patterns are played, and listeners transpose the patterns into symbolic notation. Even without pitch, seeing the patterns often causes the transcriber to be able to attach that visual to a familiar song.

I have done this with kids as young as 3rd grade, with a fair degree of success. They get better at it with practice, in fact. Seeing the notation gives them a reference point for running the rhythm through their mental library and checking for matches. If I gave them a pool of songs to choose from (even a large pool), they could pick the correct song with impressive accuracy, simply by hearing the rhythm. In other words, if Newton had used a multiple choice format, schoolkids could not only identify the song, but transcribe it, if the notation were simple enough. A song like “Twinkle, Twinkle” would be drop-dead easy for most 10-year olds.

This does not negate your point: all learning is easier if the learner has background knowledge. The learner constructs new knowledge around and in relationship to old, practiced knowledge. And sometimes, old knowledge is definitely a curse. At this very moment, millions of people are trying to reconcile what they “know” about the American health care system by grafting it on to other systems.

You might also be surprised at how few songs are universal in the American consciousness. Lots of research on the shrinking % of Americans who know either the words or the tune to the national anthem.

]]> By: Anonymous http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7405 Anonymous Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:29:17 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7405 That was a really well-presented analogy. You should be a teacher! That was a really well-presented analogy. You should be a teacher!

]]> By: Chuck Jennes http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7404 Chuck Jennes Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:54:47 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7404 Wonderful analogy. Wonderful analogy.

]]> By: Karin Chenoweth http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7401 Karin Chenoweth Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:47:34 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7401 Thanks for a vivid way to explain the need for background knowledge. Thanks for a vivid way to explain the need for background knowledge.

]]> By: Obi-Wandreas http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2009/08/18/the-%e2%80%9ccurse-of-knowledge%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-7400 Obi-Wandreas Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:36:47 +0000 http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=3111#comment-7400 This is what drives me so nuts about the "Connected Math" program our district has bought into. It requires there to be something to connect to. The problem is, the students come out of Investigations, which also fails to teach any actual knowledge. Teachers are given pacing guides and curricula to which we are told to adhere religiously, leaving little to no time to teach the kids what they need to know to understand the lessons. It's only because I have my kids for 1.5 hours per day that I'm able to work in what they need. This is about the most profound article about modern teaching I have read in a very long time. It reminds me of James Burke's classic series, "The Day the Universe Changed." You only see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. To see properly requires a background store of knowledge. Especially in urban districts, too many kids are coming in without this basic cache of knowledge. This needs to be filled in before anything else is possible. This is what drives me so nuts about the “Connected Math” program our district has bought into. It requires there to be something to connect to. The problem is, the students come out of Investigations, which also fails to teach any actual knowledge. Teachers are given pacing guides and curricula to which we are told to adhere religiously, leaving little to no time to teach the kids what they need to know to understand the lessons. It’s only because I have my kids for 1.5 hours per day that I’m able to work in what they need.

This is about the most profound article about modern teaching I have read in a very long time. It reminds me of James Burke’s classic series, “The Day the Universe Changed.” You only see what your knowledge tells you you’re seeing. To see properly requires a background store of knowledge. Especially in urban districts, too many kids are coming in without this basic cache of knowledge. This needs to be filled in before anything else is possible.

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