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	<title>Comments on: Education Homilies and Other Empty Buckets</title>
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	<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/</link>
	<description>Closing the Achievement Gap: Teaching Content</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 16:19:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Roni</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20484</link>
		<dc:creator>Roni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 04:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20484</guid>
		<description>Another homily that was said one year by our district&#039;s superintendent was, &quot;Teach the stuff, not the fluff.&quot;  Fluff was art, social studies, and for the most part, science.  It was a running joke in my school that if and when you taught someone teaching &quot;fluff&quot; as you walked past their open classroom door, you would stick your head in and holler, &quot;Hey!  Stop it!  You&#039;re teaching fluff!&quot;

Education is about balance.  Not every child is going to grow up, go to college, and have a high-paying white-collar job.  Some may grow up to be singers, dancers, artists.  If we don&#039;t foster &quot;fluff,&quot; we are doing those students who have other strengths and talents a disservice.  

In the same vein, I agree with the notion that there needs to be both a bucket and a fire.  Provide students what they need, but at the same time foster their individuality and strengths that come in other forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another homily that was said one year by our district&#8217;s superintendent was, &#8220;Teach the stuff, not the fluff.&#8221;  Fluff was art, social studies, and for the most part, science.  It was a running joke in my school that if and when you taught someone teaching &#8220;fluff&#8221; as you walked past their open classroom door, you would stick your head in and holler, &#8220;Hey!  Stop it!  You&#8217;re teaching fluff!&#8221;</p>
<p>Education is about balance.  Not every child is going to grow up, go to college, and have a high-paying white-collar job.  Some may grow up to be singers, dancers, artists.  If we don&#8217;t foster &#8220;fluff,&#8221; we are doing those students who have other strengths and talents a disservice.  </p>
<p>In the same vein, I agree with the notion that there needs to be both a bucket and a fire.  Provide students what they need, but at the same time foster their individuality and strengths that come in other forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Miss Friday</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20483</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Friday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 03:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20483</guid>
		<description>@Diana,

I wish I knew of such an education school.  I would pick up and move there tomorrow to enroll.

Because of the low demand for music teachers in CA, I have gone back to school for an elementary teaching license.  There has been no mention (not even in passing) of content!  Reams upon reams of pedagogy and psychology and emotional manipulation.  But no knowledge anywhere.  To quote Gertrude Stein, &quot;There is no there there.&quot;  (Did she really write that?)  It is so frustrating for someone who loves knowledge in all its forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Diana,</p>
<p>I wish I knew of such an education school.  I would pick up and move there tomorrow to enroll.</p>
<p>Because of the low demand for music teachers in CA, I have gone back to school for an elementary teaching license.  There has been no mention (not even in passing) of content!  Reams upon reams of pedagogy and psychology and emotional manipulation.  But no knowledge anywhere.  To quote Gertrude Stein, &#8220;There is no there there.&#8221;  (Did she really write that?)  It is so frustrating for someone who loves knowledge in all its forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Senechal</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20482</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Senechal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20482</guid>
		<description>Well, no. This would presume a liberal arts degree (and in &quot;liberal arts&quot; I include math and sciences). 

Even a major in a subject is really just initial exposure. When preparing to teach a subject, one ends up learning it all over again. Yes, one can undertake that while teaching, but there is rarely time for the delving that is possible in graduate school. That&#039;s why I dream of an ed school with a liberal arts focus but also an eye to lesson planning and delivery.

The Yale-New Haven Teachers Institute does something like this (but it isn&#039;t an ed school). New Haven public school teachers take courses in subject matter from Yale professors and take part in seminars. Then they take what they&#039;ve learned and write (or enhance) curriculum for their classrooms and schools.

The Dallas Institute of Humanities and Culture&#039;s Sue Rose Summer Institute for Teachers (where I am now a faculty member) has a fascinating approach. Teachers from the Dallas area (who teach a range of subjects and grade levels) come to the Summer Institute to immerse themselves in literature for three weeks. In the even-numbered years, they study epic; in the odd-numbered years, tragedy and comedy. The Summer Institute follows a special (and unencumbered) format every day: breakfast, opening remarks, a lecture, a two-hour seminar discussion, lunch, and various afternoon events and activities. 

Both of these institutes have something in common with the education school I envision. I don&#039;t see this as an idea of my own; rather, it already exists in different contexts and forms. For all I know, there may already be an education school like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, no. This would presume a liberal arts degree (and in &#8220;liberal arts&#8221; I include math and sciences). </p>
<p>Even a major in a subject is really just initial exposure. When preparing to teach a subject, one ends up learning it all over again. Yes, one can undertake that while teaching, but there is rarely time for the delving that is possible in graduate school. That&#8217;s why I dream of an ed school with a liberal arts focus but also an eye to lesson planning and delivery.</p>
<p>The Yale-New Haven Teachers Institute does something like this (but it isn&#8217;t an ed school). New Haven public school teachers take courses in subject matter from Yale professors and take part in seminars. Then they take what they&#8217;ve learned and write (or enhance) curriculum for their classrooms and schools.</p>
<p>The Dallas Institute of Humanities and Culture&#8217;s Sue Rose Summer Institute for Teachers (where I am now a faculty member) has a fascinating approach. Teachers from the Dallas area (who teach a range of subjects and grade levels) come to the Summer Institute to immerse themselves in literature for three weeks. In the even-numbered years, they study epic; in the odd-numbered years, tragedy and comedy. The Summer Institute follows a special (and unencumbered) format every day: breakfast, opening remarks, a lecture, a two-hour seminar discussion, lunch, and various afternoon events and activities. </p>
<p>Both of these institutes have something in common with the education school I envision. I don&#8217;t see this as an idea of my own; rather, it already exists in different contexts and forms. For all I know, there may already be an education school like that.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20481</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20481</guid>
		<description>Diana -- sounds like you&#039;re actually talking about abolishing education schools and making teacher candidates get a general liberal arts degree instead. Not a bad idea, now that you mention it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diana &#8212; sounds like you&#8217;re actually talking about abolishing education schools and making teacher candidates get a general liberal arts degree instead. Not a bad idea, now that you mention it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lighting a Fire or Filling a Pail? &#171; Diane Ravitch&#39;s blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20480</link>
		<dc:creator>Lighting a Fire or Filling a Pail? &#171; Diane Ravitch&#39;s blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 15:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20480</guid>
		<description>[...] Corbett Burris posted a critique of the Relay Graduate School of Education here. Robert Pondiscio questioned Burris&#8217; metaphor about &#8220;lighting a fire&#8221; rather than &#8220;filling a pail,&#8221; on the assumption [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Corbett Burris posted a critique of the Relay Graduate School of Education here. Robert Pondiscio questioned Burris&#8217; metaphor about &#8220;lighting a fire&#8221; rather than &#8220;filling a pail,&#8221; on the assumption [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Senechal</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20479</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Senechal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20479</guid>
		<description>One can learn a lot about teaching through pondering and playing with the subject. That&#039;s what&#039;s missing from many ed school curricula. If ed schools taught literary works, mathematical topics, and historical topics, then prospective teachers could learn this material at a new level and think about how they might teach it.

One thing I love about the CK sequence is that it gets the mind playing. Wouldn&#039;t it be great if an ed school drew from it or from a curriculum of similar caliber? Nothing would be lost; even if the teachers ended up teaching different topics at their schools, they would carry something from this immersion and work.

I dream of an ed school that focuses on liberal arts (at a high level).How interesting it would be, and how well it would prepare teachers. Of course, you need more than subject matter; you need some courses in pedagogy, education history, education philosophy, and more. But a liberal arts emphasis  would be grounding and invigorating. I&#039;m not talking about courses in ELA &quot;teaching strategies.&quot; I&#039;m talking about courses in literature, history, mathematics, physics, music, philosophy, and so forth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can learn a lot about teaching through pondering and playing with the subject. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s missing from many ed school curricula. If ed schools taught literary works, mathematical topics, and historical topics, then prospective teachers could learn this material at a new level and think about how they might teach it.</p>
<p>One thing I love about the CK sequence is that it gets the mind playing. Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if an ed school drew from it or from a curriculum of similar caliber? Nothing would be lost; even if the teachers ended up teaching different topics at their schools, they would carry something from this immersion and work.</p>
<p>I dream of an ed school that focuses on liberal arts (at a high level).How interesting it would be, and how well it would prepare teachers. Of course, you need more than subject matter; you need some courses in pedagogy, education history, education philosophy, and more. But a liberal arts emphasis  would be grounding and invigorating. I&#8217;m not talking about courses in ELA &#8220;teaching strategies.&#8221; I&#8217;m talking about courses in literature, history, mathematics, physics, music, philosophy, and so forth.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Pondiscio</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20478</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Pondiscio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20478</guid>
		<description>@TeacherEd   Glad you posted that link with your comment.  And I hope anyone who is tempted to conclude that &quot;Hirsch stands firm in support of drilling&quot; will click through to it before coming to that conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TeacherEd   Glad you posted that link with your comment.  And I hope anyone who is tempted to conclude that &#8220;Hirsch stands firm in support of drilling&#8221; will click through to it before coming to that conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: TeacherEd</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20477</link>
		<dc:creator>TeacherEd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20477</guid>
		<description>David, Hirsch is not with Gardner on the side of constructivism now. They may both be against a shallow curriculum and teaching to the test, but Hirsch stands firm in support of drilling:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/magazine/19fob-medium-heffernan-t.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, Hirsch is not with Gardner on the side of constructivism now. They may both be against a shallow curriculum and teaching to the test, but Hirsch stands firm in support of drilling:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/magazine/19fob-medium-heffernan-t.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/magazine/19fob-medium-heffernan-t.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carol Burris</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20476</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Burris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20476</guid>
		<description>&#039;Says who&#039;  is a great question to ask!
to understand why the teaching in the video does not promote transfer and retention I suggest the work and research of Madeline Hunter, the revised Bloom Taxonomy of Anderson and Krathwohl and others. They do an excellent job of explaining the differences between complexity and difficulty as well as teaching for transfer, Mary Bud Rowe is the classic source for the research on think time for high quality answers and Harvards Project Zero for teaching for understanding.
There is a world for great research and literature on teaching and learning. That is what is missed in a program like Relay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Says who&#8217;  is a great question to ask!<br />
to understand why the teaching in the video does not promote transfer and retention I suggest the work and research of Madeline Hunter, the revised Bloom Taxonomy of Anderson and Krathwohl and others. They do an excellent job of explaining the differences between complexity and difficulty as well as teaching for transfer, Mary Bud Rowe is the classic source for the research on think time for high quality answers and Harvards Project Zero for teaching for understanding.<br />
There is a world for great research and literature on teaching and learning. That is what is missed in a program like Relay.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://blog.coreknowledge.org/2012/07/05/education-homilies-and-other-empty-buckets/comment-page-1/#comment-20475</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.coreknowledge.org/?p=5969#comment-20475</guid>
		<description>&quot;The techniques used in the video do not support retention or the creation of connections that results in deep learning.&quot;

Says who? We can all have a two-minute hate of what this classroom looked like, but who says your preferred classroom techniques actually result in any more real learning or engagement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The techniques used in the video do not support retention or the creation of connections that results in deep learning.&#8221;</p>
<p>Says who? We can all have a two-minute hate of what this classroom looked like, but who says your preferred classroom techniques actually result in any more real learning or engagement?</p>
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